Coup d' d'état in Turkey

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Veronique
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Post by Veronique »



2 minutes ago, TuncelKurtiz said:




 



Where do you get this informations for God sake ?!? American FOX TV ??



YOU WOULDNT BEAT THIS SOLDIERS ?!? I would hang them instantly without any court ... Gosh who are you people ? Do you understand what are you saying?







 






Quote




YOU WOULDNT BEAT THIS SOLDIERS ?!? I would hang them instantly without any court...





No I would not. Where I come from there is a legal procedure for such acts in respect of any other obligation of international law. Taking the law into hands is not something I understand. I spoke previously about the constitutional state but you missed my point.



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Who are you when nobody is watching???? 





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Post by Meltem »



12 minutes ago, TuncelKurtiz said:




You couldnt watch live streams from people phones and I am not talking about staged TV stations which are under control of USA gov...
Who made people hidding during making videos and posting how police is beating them and using violence against protest. Please. I am out...





Now you're saying that our TV stations are under the control of the USA government? 



Well, that's news to Americans. 


Politicians may wish it were so when television pundits and reporters rip them to shreds - and that includes the president. 



But, it isn't so. 



You are vastly misinformed. 



I saw plenty of live streams during the protest - just so you know. 




“Nolite te bastardes carborundorum."

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Post by PAT »


Who are we? Who are you?



Nobody is defending the coup or killing citizens. We are just chit-chatting about your bad guy Erdoğan One thing doesn't exclude the other. 

 .
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Post by Meltem »



28 minutes ago, Veronique said:




No I would not. Where I come from there is a legal procedure for such acts in respect of any other obligation of international law. Taking the law into hands is not something I understand. I spoke previously about the constitutional state but you missed my point.





Do people really want mob mentality in Turkey? Somehow, I don't think so. 



It would be a freaking nightmare.



“Neither a man nor a crowd nor a nation can be trusted to act humanely or to think sanely under the influence of a great fear.” 



~ Bertrand Russell




“Nolite te bastardes carborundorum."

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Post by Jellybon »



1 hour ago, TuncelKurtiz said:





Funny fact of you "democracy" lovers... Before few years ago there was protest in USA known as "Occupy Wall Street" for few days world didnt know anything about it, social networks were blocked and noone didnt report anything about it. Why arent you starting campain get down dictatorship of USA President and Senat ?
 



 





I can't stop loughing Where did you find this information? I'm telling you now, if you didn't find yet, that it's totally fatse. No one blocked social network here ever. The movement was on TV and other media channels not only in USA, but in Canada too. It was also "occupied" a central park in Totonto where protesters could express freely supervised by the police. They were let to stay there, even camp there with tents and everything for weeks. The municipality has made available drinking water and ecological toilets. I doubt that something similar happened in Turkey during Gezi Park protest for example.  So, don't compare the democracy in USA with what so called "democracy" in Turkey now. It's a very big difference in all its aspects.
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49 minutes ago, Veronique said:




As to the conclusion she/he is right,  human rights and freedoms have dramatically diminished, there is no respect what so ever on any human rights in Turkey when it comes to the freedom of speech, the freedom of religious, the rights of minorities (whoever that minority might be), the rights of women and all these in a corrupt judicial system. The Islamism has risen indeed in in the country and we are not talking about Muslim believers here, but radical elements of society using religion for political and social purposes. Erdogan is the leader of a party that does not appreciate human rights as they are conceived and explained by International Law that is crystal clear, so a Presidential Republic, implemented as Turkish political system currently understand it, gives no chance to any of his political opponents to raise voice or have any voting power on any law the president wishes to pass. They are even considering to reinforce the death penalty for crying out loud. But they forget (or pretend so) that Turkey is a member of the Council of Europe which has the abolition of death penalty as prerequisite for member states (Protocol 6  which prohibits the death penalty during peacetime has been ratified by all members of the Council of Europe, except Russia (which has signed, but not ratified) but  has  suspended it (under moratorium), therefore the country is abolitionist in practice. And have you seen the last images in which civilians supporters of the government attack soldiers, beating them to death? Who is going to be punished for the murder of that soldier? In all, its the previous comment I made, tyranny against tyranny does not make freedom. Turkish society must get a consciousness on what is the right path to take politically in order to make Turkey a constitutional country and that is not going to happen under the rule of an Islamic government...well officially a secular government but lets not kidding ourselves, in practice an Islamic one. 
No I would not. Where I come from there is a legal procedure for such acts in respect of any other obligation of international law. Taking the law into hands is not something I understand. I spoke previously about the constitutional state but you missed my point.






Turkey is secular (on paper?), democratic and constitutional country and not a dictatorship as some want to point here and compare it with Syria and Iraq... Everyone has right to form political party, registar himself for elections but problem is that AKP is doing well for majority of Turks and Kurds. AKP is making Turkey strong and that is not interest of everyone.
Yea I agree and people are lynching coup and those who kill soldier should end on court to answer for it. That is rage answer from me "they has right to kill them". In the end big part of that soldiers in coup are just peons in hand of bigger shoots - generals
 




46 minutes ago, Meltem said:




Now you're saying that out TV stations are under the control of the USA government? 



Well, that's news to Americans. 


Politicians may wish it were so when television pundits and reporters rip them to shreds - and that includes the president. 



But, it isn't so. 



You are vastly misinformed. 



I saw plenty of live streams during the protest - just so you know. 





Seems you trolling me so let me answer you in same constructive manner...
Bla bla bla
Bla bla bla
Bla bla bla
Bla bla bla.



I didnt saw any live coverage on social media from people who were protesting and then tomorrow I watched video of some guy who was in organisation of protest how goverment was blocking social media... Europe is my location...
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Post by TuncelKurtiz »



7 minutes ago, Jellybon said:




I can't stop loughing Where did you find this information? I'm telling you now, if you didn't find yet, that it's totally fatse. No one blocked social network here ever. The movement was on TV and other media channels not only in USA, but in Canada too. It was also "occupied" a central park in Totonto where protesters could express freely supervised by the police. They were let to stay there, even camp there with tents and everything for weeks. The municipality has made available drinking water and ecological toilets. I doubt that something similar happened in Turkey during Gezi Park protest for example.  So, don't compare the democracy in USA with what so called "democracy" in Turkey now. It's a very big difference in all its aspects.





Wrote it up ... First hours when it become viral I couldnt watch LIVE STREAMS on FB and TWITER ...
Yap lets not compare democracy in USA and Turkey... In USA people get shoot just because they are black.
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Post by Meltem »



15 minutes ago, TuncelKurtiz said:





Turkey is secular (on paper?), democratic and constitutional country and not a dictatorship as some want to point here and compare it with Syria and Iraq... Everyone has right to form political party, registar himself for elections but problem is that AKP is doing well for majority of Turks and Kurds. AKP is making Turkey strong and that is not interest of everyone.
Yea I agree and people are lynching coup and those who kill soldier should end on court to answer for it. That is rage answer from me "they has right to kill them". In the end big part of that soldiers in coup are just peons in hand of bigger shoots - generals
 



Seems you trolling me so let me answer you in same constructive manner...
Bla bla bla
Bla bla bla
Bla bla bla
Bla bla bla.



I didnt saw any live coverage on social media from people who were protesting and then tomorrow I watched video of some guy who was in organisation of protest how goverment was blocking social media... Europe is my location...





Trolling you? LOL! 



You're a bit on the rude side, eh?



Sorry, but you don't intimidate me in the least, my dear.



When you post things that are untrue, expect people to correct you. 



Just sayin...




“Nolite te bastardes carborundorum."

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Post by TuncelKurtiz »



3 minutes ago, Meltem said:




Trolling you? LOL! 



You're a bit on the rude side, eh?



Sorry, but you don't intimidate me in the least, my dear.



When you post things that are untrue, expect people to correct you. 



Just sayin...





Thats how it look like. Yes! LOL!
Wasn't intention... I got feeling you was so same measure...
Same dear...
Not really untrue... I posted what I experianced and later heard on video what was problem. I don't believe I might be uninformed by that video because I really searched it and no live stream of random people on protest during start day. As for correcting, it is great when everyone can speak their mind without fear. Welcome to democracy...
Just sayin...
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Post by Jellybon »



27 minutes ago, TuncelKurtiz said:




Wrote it up ... First hours when it become viral I couldnt watch LIVE STREAMS on FB and TWITER ...
Yap lets not compare democracy in USA and Turkey... In USA people get shoot just because they are black.





in what century are you living?
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3 minutes ago, Jellybon said:




in what century are you living?





 
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Post by Veronique »



36 minutes ago, TuncelKurtiz said:




AKP is doing well for majority of Turks and Kurds





I'm sorry but I can't resist my reaction right now... say what again?






I couldn't find a ''whaaaat'' more proper than this, especially on that ''Kurd matter''



 



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Who are you when nobody is watching???? 





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Post by Veronique »



1 hour ago, TuncelKurtiz said:




 



Where do you get this informations for God sake ?!? American FOX TV ??



YOU WOULDNT BEAT THIS SOLDIERS ?!? I would hang them instantly without any court ... Gosh who are you people ? Do you understand what are you saying? An army that is paid by this citizens is SHOOTHING on them and crossing over people by tanks and you say they has right because Erdogan is dictator or Erdogan staged this... Get in damn reality...







 





Oh I forgot, take this one as well, I' ll be waiting for the ''constitutional government's'' response on this. The soldier had orders from his commanders, what did these animals have?



protesters beheaded a #Turkish_Army soldier in #Istanbul, #TurkeyCoup






 



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Who are you when nobody is watching???? 





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1 minute ago, Veronique said:




I'm sorry but I can't resist my reaction right now... say what again?



I couldn't find a ''whaaaat'' more proper than this, especially on that ''Kurd matter''



 





You are being funny and sorry but seems you dont follow politics in Turkey...
How AKP is doing well in Turkey you can best see in elections novembar 2015 - AKP 23.681.926, CHP 12.111.812, HDP 5.148.085, MHP 5.694.136... Over 50% Turkey citizens who has right to vote consider that they are doing good job...
In Turkey is 22,5 million Kurds in total (http://ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc20 ... ey4166.htm). Lets say 50-60% got right to vote (even thou that number is much higher for sure) and that is like 11-12 million Kurds... Main Kurish party in Turkey is HDP and they got on november 2015. elections 5,148,085 votes. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_g ... ember_2015)... So conclusion half of turkish Kurds doesnt find HDP as their choice leaving over 6 million Kurdish votes which majority give vote to AKP...
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Post by TuncelKurtiz »



2 minutes ago, Veronique said:




Oh I forgot, take this one as well, I' ll be waiting for the ''constitutional government's'' response on this. The soldier had orders from his commanders, what did these animals have?



protesters beheaded a #Turkish_Army soldier in #Istanbul, #TurkeyCoup







 





Court and judge sentence him with law of country...
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Post by Veronique »



Just now, TuncelKurtiz said:




You are being funny and sorry but seems you dont follow politics in Turkey...
How AKP is doing well in Turkey you can best see in elections novembar 2015 - AKP 23.681.926, CHP 12.111.812, HDP 5.148.085, MHP 5.694.136... Over 50% Turkey citizens who has right to vote consider that they are doing good job...
In Turkey is 22,5 million Kurds in total (http://ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc20 ... ey4166.htm). Lets say 50-60% got right to vote (even thou that number is much higher for sure) and that is like 11-12 million Kurds... Main Kurish party in Turkey is HDP and they got on november 2015. elections 5,148,085 votes. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_g ... ember_2015)... So conclusion half of turkish Kurds doesnt find HDP as their choice leaving over 6 million Kurdish votes which majority give vote to AKP...





Ok then, I' ll leave the analysis to you who do follow politics in Turkey. I'm sorry again for my irrelevance in the topic



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Who are you when nobody is watching???? 





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17 minutes ago, Veronique said:




Ok then, I' ll leave the analysis to you who do follow politics in Turkey. I'm sorry again for my irrelevance in the topic





Dont put me words I didnt said and I am sorry if you understanded I lower your irrelevance from what I posted... 
I didnt make any analysis, I watched political shows before elections and I just offered you facts and there you go... Read it... There was good video on AJ where they make analysis and ask kudrish families for who they vote but I cant find it...
There is another links http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-08/t ... te/5658580
 http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/why-d ... 1279486418
Only Kudrs on eastern boarders give support to HDP while other in interior of Turkey support AKP and it is like 50-50...
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Post by Veronique »



13 minutes ago, TuncelKurtiz said:




Dont put me words I didnt said and I am sorry if you understanded I lower your irrelevance from what I posted... 
I didnt make any analysis, I watched political shows before elections and I just offered you facts and there you go... Read it... There was good video on AJ where they make analysis and ask kudrish families for who they vote but I cant find it...
There is another links http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-08/t ... te/5658580
 http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/why-d ... 1279486418
Only Kudrs on eastern boarders give support to HDP while other in interior of Turkey support AKP and it is like 50-50...





It's ok, I didn't take it wrong we just have different approach on this matter. Furthermore it is really difficult to discus behind a keyboard since there is not that tête-à-tête connection and the acquaintance between discussants.   



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Who are you when nobody is watching???? 





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Post by Lena »


Politics is a huge headache! I pray that Allah protects Turkey and its beautiful people. I also pray for those who lost their lives and those who mourn them. Their pain is our pain. The whole world is one body and when a part of it hurts, the whole body hurts. Such is the state of our world. We need love and sadly, many have lost their humanity. I'm proud of the turkish people and they have my full support. Don't fear. Allah is with us.  
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this is so, SO sad!!!



 



anyone from Turkey to inform us how is the situation there now?


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14 hours ago, PAT said:




Erdogan (and his AK party) is Turkey's biggest curse. Since he has been in power, human rights and freedoms have dramatically diminished, Islamism has risen in the country. They created and supported ISIS, now they re-established diplomatic and economical relations with Israel.



I hope for the Turkish people that one day not so far from now, a true leader will rise and kick him out through democratic ways, and re-establish Ataturk's state that allowed Turkey to get out of the Ottoman's dark ages and become a civilized country. 



Until then, like any other dictator, Erdogan is controlling every inch of the country. Yesterday's so-called "coup" has been described by lots of Turks as a "theatrical set-up" that will allow Erdogan to make it look like the government with the support of its people have put an end to a coup d'état. Which is most probably true. What kind of a "coup" proclaims controlling the country, without capturing the leaders of this country and taking control over all the media? Erdogan and Davutoglu were playing on Face video all night long and were able to have access to all the media and social media. 



It will also allow Erdogan to take it as an excuse to change the political system of the country to a presidential system, where all powers will be in his hands. 





When the threads on this forum took a bit of a different turn, I promised myself not to get involved in it. I just came here to read and really found the discussion informative and refreshing with respect to the diverse and opposing views. What irked me, and literally itched me and compelled me to write something here is this comment made above and I quote "They created and supported ISIS". Supported part I absolutely agree with and it is proven certainty of the scenario as being witnessed and recorded until recent turn of events. But the created part, that was a bit irresponsible statement to put it mildly. Yes Turkey did not engage ISIS in the way Western countries have been asking to do so and Turkey had its' reasons for it; again which are all debatable and questionable. Coming to the creation of the monster called ISIS, please, please do not forget or underestimate the volatility, the sectarian divide, the foreign forces at play and the ground geopolitical realities of this region post Iraq US invasion. A simplistic unidirectional view of this problem such as this does disservice to understanding and teasing out a solution for this phenomenon.  Anyone who has followed Middle East politics can tell you the basics about creation of ISIS. Turkey's Erdogan government most certainly has been an inexcusable culprit in supporting ISIS and supporting the status quo in the face of their own constant real and perceived threat and neurosis of KKP. But I personally haven't come across any documented or even political analyst supported evidence of ISIS being created by Turkey. If there is please do forward me so, I would like to better educate myself on the topic and would appreciate any contribution. Here is a well researched and put together documentary aired on PBS shedding some light on the creation of ISIS. It by no means covers all different aspects of the issue, such as the involvement of ex-Baath party members in the development of ISIS but nonetheless it gives a good overview. It may help to put rest and dispel some of the myths about this vicious monster.



http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/ ... y-of-isis/



Secondly before I am branded by people here as an Erdogan lover, which I am staunchly not, I would like to add that labeling someone as that because of their opposing  or dissenting views from the majority is rather borderline derogatory, if I am so bold to say so. That is the beauty of freedom of speech that even the most unpopular or controversial opinions should be allowed to be voiced and respected without the fear of unwarranted labels. Disagreements should always be welcomed and critical analysis encouraged.



As I am writing this, I am being very cautious as to how I word myself, since politics in general and most certainly ME politics is such a heated, impassioned and turbulent topic. I don't want to step on someone's sensitivities here neither I want to sound offensive.  I am from North America but many of my dear posters and forum members here are from the ME and what seems like a distant, world away politics to us who watch, view and analyze this from the safety of our homes in many of the stable Western countries, is actually a reality that people face and live every single day without much hope of resolution in immediate sight.  I hope I didn't hurt anyone with my comment, if so I apologize and please know this it was not my intention.



The acts highlighted here are deplorable and no one is above the rule of law and I hope that people who perpetuated these crimes against the said soldier above and others are brought to justice swiftly. Let's not forget that last night we witnessed something incredible, a rising of people of Turkey to resist imposition of military rule and a failure of an attempted coup or should I say that Turks prevented an attempted mutiny within certain ranks of their military. I pray for all the victims of this coup on both sides. Loss of innocent lives can never be justified. Turkey is a country of grave importance and not just in the Muslim world. Its' geopolitical importance cannot be overlooked. It has the 2nd largest military in NATO after US. And a divided Turkish military is not a good sign for the stability of the country. Turkey borders Iraq and Syria both war ridden, volatile countries and the stability of Turkey is important for the regional security. The attempted coup will have reverberating financial and economical consequences, mostly negative for the country as being pointed out by many analysts. If Erdogan government did stage this attempted coup or mutiny, as pointed out here, I hope, they did not overlook the foreign investment (which Turkey heavily relies on) and economical consequences from their political agenda calculation. The world markets are very jittery to begin with and how they react on Monday to this developing situation will be something to watch.



Once again, I hope I didn't offend anyone with this post and if I sound too blunt, please forgive me.
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27 minutes ago, NaZ said:




 



That is the beauty of freedom of speech that even the most unpopular or controversial opinions should be allowed to be voiced and respected without the fear of unwarranted labels. Disagreements should always be welcomed and critical analysis encouraged.



As I am writing this, I am being very cautious as to how I word myself, since politics in general and most certainly ME politics is such a heated, impassioned and turbulent topic. I don't want to step on someone's sensitivities here neither I want to sound offensive.  I am from North America but many of my dear posters and forum members here are from the ME and what seems like a distant, world away politics to us who watch, view and analyze this from the safety of our homes in many of the stable Western countries, is actually a reality that people face and live every single day without much hope of resolution in immediate sight.  I hope I didn't hurt anyone with my comment, if so I apologize and please know this it was not my intention.



 



Once again, I hope I didn't offend anyone with this post and if I sound too blunt, please forgive me.





I couldn't agree with you more! Very well said and you are being nothing but respectful.
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49 minutes ago, Lena said:




I couldn't agree with you more! Very well said and you are being nothing but respectful.




Thank you Lenacim for your understanding. Your kindness and generosity is boundless. Thanks for your kind words as always.
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1 hour ago, Angel/Poyraz said:
























Turks really did put their lives on the line here trying to defend the democratic process and resist this coup. Bravo to the Turkish people and I salute their courage for standing up for their rights. Prayers and condolences for the precious lives lost and speedy recovery for the injured. May Allah keep everyone, everywhere in HIS protection.
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Post by Veronique »



9 minutes ago, laura67 said:









Something like this I'm sure







 



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Who are you when nobody is watching???? 





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Post by Veronique »


Just in one photo so many violations of human rights, to their own soldiers by the way, the one they trust the safety of the country and have done a great job so far.  Turkey is a party to all of the below treaties or conventions. 



 



1.  Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.



Art. 7: Non-renunciation of rights, Art. 12: Responsibility for the treatment of prisoners, Art. 13: Human treatment of prisoners, Art 14: Respect for the person of prisoners



 



2. International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights



Art. 7:  Bans torture or other cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment, by guaranteeing those deprived of their liberty with the same conditions as that set for free persons



Art. 10:  complements Art. 7 and provides that any person deprived of their liberty shall be treated with humanity and dignity



 



3.  Convention for the protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms



Art. 3: No one shall be subjected to torture and to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment 



 



4. The European Convention for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment in regard with the above convention for the  visit, examine the treatment of persons deprived of their liberty with a view to strengthening, if necessary, the protection of such persons from torture and from inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. We'll see if they will be allowed to visit the prisoners. 



[tweet][/tweet]



but they are actually detained in Sirnak, eastern Turkey as she corrected later...



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