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Işık wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:01 pm Vay kızlar.. I am late to the party!
@QueenLola our kraliçe is back! Yaşasın! blisssmiley
Çok geçmiş olsun canım. We missed you sooo much! We sooo wanted to have you along us for the last two episodes. But like UglyDuckling said, we can dissect the episodes again [default_winking.gif] I don't think I'll ever get tired of discussing these two gems of episodes.
Sağol canım :hug3_entangled:
Işık wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:01 pm No idea how you took the final scene of episode 27 totally unprepared. We were preparing for it for a week and ateşli Emre bey was hyping it continyously and we still were utterly unprepared for that heart break. I still can't believe how good it was and that they really revealed the secret finally.
I was so out of touch, that I watched it after episode 28 aired and I still didn't know what was coming default_moque.gif
It was goose-bumps those last minutes. I really thought we were going the usual route of nothing being revealed.
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Işık wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:26 pm
On Terken attempting to slap Başulu, the woman has zero shame. If Başulu is accused of treason, Terken has committed it at least twice. Once when she poisoned her mother in law, and the second when she got the weapons convoy killed and the weapons stolen. So all I could think of in that scene was how does she dare feign indignation when she's the one ready to commit treason for her own petty reasons.
The worst part is she'll get away with it all since she goes on to outlive Melikşah and get her son to be ruler :furious2_head: .
I really would have loved for them to expose her as a Batini helper whether she did it knowingly or not [default_gnugghender.gif]
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Işık wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:47 pm
+10 to that.
Tajulmulk is a zeka küpü. I have no idea how he's still alive with the amount of intelligence he has above his shoulders.
The actor was having the time of his life last episode looking so smug and full of himself :P I wanted to reach across the screen and slap him. Especially when he started whining about Zubeida knowing the secret. After all the catastrophes he has done or facilitated, I wonder why he's still in the palace in the first place. Such a useless man. When Melikşah called him to testify in his diwan, I was like, are you serious your majesty? You do realize you've been slapping this excuse of a man constantly, right?
He's a true definition of cockroach. You just can't get rid of them. And from history, he still outlives Melikşah and Nizamülmülk and even goes in to align himself with Berkyaruk tswearing
We better ready ourselves for many more episodes of smugness [default_daleksmiley1.gif]
Işık wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:47 pm Regarding Tekiş, before the battle between him and Melikşah, I have had flashes where his arguments made sense, even if I would never side with him. He's such a horrible human being and would make a horrible sultan. His arguments made sense sometimes but it was always about him thinking he was more worthy of the throne than Melikşah and it was never about him really caring about the state.
What struck me the most, however, was this particular scene after Melikşah got him blinded, when he's in his tent and is told the batini had taken Şelemzar. He started railing about the useless Sultan and as much as I wanted to tell him the sultan was actually buzy warring with you, his speech rang true. Melikşah never figured out Terken poisoned his mother, or that she diverted the weapons materials, or that Sabbah was a hain, and he still has Tajulmulk by his sids despite everything he did. And to finally have Şelemzar taken by the batinis.. In that short moment, I found myself looking at things from Tekiş's perspective.
The actor is phenomenal by the way. He fit the persona like a glove.
Tekış is too proud.... or sometimes I wonder if they've over idealized Melikşah and now everybody else is evil compared with him.
He might not be the best warrior to conquer places like Melikşah has done, but these issues clearly bug him more than Melikşah. We've always complained like Tekiş of how slow the Selçuks can be.
Well he's faced the consequences of ısyan. I wonder how dumb he is now to think he can achieve much in his blinded state. From the fact that he will stupidly try again when Berkyaruk is sultan, he probably regains somewhat of his vision.

P.S. The actor is really amazing. I love his presence. The only thing I've watched of his is Dağ 2. And I'll have to rewatch to remember what role he played there.
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Işık wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:31 pm
Also this scene in the oba last episode with Sencer waiting like a puppy for his father to acknowledge him, not like his son, not like Ahmet, but simply as soldier Sencer and the sultan denying him even that by not involving him in the mission. Ugh.. I mean I like angst and I should not be complaining but boy do I want Sencer to reach a stage where he revolts. I know he wouldn't. He's the cool headed one among these maniacs but I still feel so sorry for him being fed scraps while he's a melik. He didn't ask his father to sire him while his mother was in exile. Melikşah knew what that would mean for this son I suppose. And still he was overtaken by his emotions. No wonder Başulu chose to take her own decisions without telling him.
He would have been totally crushed if he wasn't given a mission. It would have meant he'd been shunned not just as a son, but also a warrior.
The relief in his eyes when the news came tswoon
Işık wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:31 pm When Zubeida told him he kept the secret son from her and he didn't tell her he was still seeing Başulu, the sultan got indignated and told her what happened between him and his wife was none of her business. I would agree if Başulu was living in the palace, then what happened between her and Melikşah would really be nome of Zubeida's business. But with the complex situation Sencer was conceived in, I think Zubeida had every right in accusing Melikşah of being double faced, getting angry at her for keeping secrets while he himself kept secrets from her in the first place.
Meliksah's logic was that he's the sultan, not Zubeida. But she's a powerful ally, and he cannot stand to alienate her. Not with war on his doors and hainler in his palace.

A bit beside the point, did you notice the foreshadowing in Zubeida's words: I know I won't die in my bed
I love Zubeida so much. What a strong and wise woman. Her words to Melikşah were spot on. Since there's blame to me shared, everyone needs to take their piece and own it.
I also wondered what she meant about not dying in her bed. Will she die fighting? Any word on this??
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clarkey wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:58 am
Anyway i am talking about audience/viewers not actors in drama. Audience/viewers should be clear that basulu was never a spy otherwise sencer will never become melik as was the case in real history. Even melikshah said so in divan-e-ala with tajulmilk and other viziers. So she was accused of spy but never a spy. So opponents of melikshah within dynasty continued to believe this lie for their own benefits.
I still believe basulu is as innocent as sencer in this drama. She did not do anything wrong and was always loyal to melikshah and state. In fact, terken is spy and traitor.
Also common sense is sencer was melik in history, so how can basulu be spy?
One more thing is basulu was kept alive to clear her name and regard sencer as melik. If she had been dead in first bolum, then there was no way to clear basulu's name and sencer could not never be the legitimate member of dynasty. Hace and melikshah did not clear her name all these 20 years because directors wanted to prolong the drama. Thats it.
Now it is actually inevitable for basulu for her name to be cleared so sencer can be called melik.
If anyone in the audience doesn't think Başulu is innocent, then yazik for them. The woman didn't gain anything from the secret.
If we want to look further, Başulu could not have been exiled without the sultan's (Melikşah's father's) consent. The belief would be great that she really was a spy. So she had to live with that shame plus escaping all the attempts on her life by the Kıpçaklar.
clarkey wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:58 am If you see first bolum and conversation between sencer and his mother, she said she would die happy when she sees his two sons beside melikshah as melik. So after sencer is declared melik. Basulu will die after sencer is declared melik. I really hope she does not die as I only see drama for her anyway. Drama will probably end for me if she dies.
Did anyone notice how sencer was doing actions like hace when he was disclosing to his fellow alps that he is melikshah's son, perhaps indicating that hace will die soon.
For drama, they might kill Başulu off, but she lives to old age in real life I think.
I actually want her to go live with Tapar in Şelemzar when they recapture the city. At least let mother and son make up for lost years.

Nizamülmülk will have to regain his title as hace before he's killed galiba.
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UglyDuckling wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:41 pm
Off course sayiduna will survive blase

This is the same person who took Batini Airlines off a cliff with barely any scratches :giggleey:

Ellerine sağlık Ahmet Sencer. First time I see you fire an arrow and the target was well met tmixpoints
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Post by clarkey »

QueenLola wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:04 pm
UglyDuckling wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:41 pm
Off course sayiduna will survive blase

This is the same person who took Batini Airlines off a cliff with barely any scratches :giggleey:

Ellerine sağlık Ahmet Sencer. First time I see you fire an arrow and the target was well met tmixpoints
Spoiler:
Do you know that hassan sabbah made peace with ahmed sencer in history? So hassan sabbah will not die.
Hace may survive because ayaz alp of ahmed sencer also survived like that in bolum 18/19 . Hace and melikshah might reconcile after hace was hit with knife.
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clarkey wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:29 pm
Spoiler:
Do you know that hassan sabbah made peace with ahmed sencer in history? So hassan sabbah will not die.
He did? I haven't come across anything like that.
They probably won't follow that path on the show. The enmity is too personal default_moque.gif
clarkey wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:29 pm Hace may survive because ayaz alp of ahmed sencer also survived like that in bolum 18/19 . Hace and melikshah might reconcile after hace was hit with knife.
I don't even know how they'll ever be on bad terms. Especially with how the things I've read hint they'll be against each before Hace's death.

I also think it'll be easier to reinstate Başulu than Nizamülmülk. I wonder how they'll cover that.
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Post by clarkey »

@QueenLola
Spoiler:
You can read wikipedia page for ahmed sencer and there it is written and they too have taken it from some book and i also checked in that book and it was written there too

Also they might show death of nizamulmulk and melikshah in first episode of season 2 like they did in season 1 first episode in which they briefly showed death of sultan alp arslan. Anyway they should not show death of melikshah and nizamulmulk spanning whole episodes, it will be heartbreaking for fans. I think sultan alp arsalan route will be good if they want to show death of melikshah and nizamulmulk.
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clarkey wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:52 pm
Also they might show death of nizamulmulk and melikshah in first episode of season 2 like they did in season 1 first episode in which they briefly showed death of sultan alp arslan. Anyway they should not show death of melikshah and nizamulmulk spanning whole episodes, it will be heartbreaking for fans. I think sultan alp arsalan route will be good if they want to show death of melikshah and nizamulmulk.
I'm hoping we have Melikşah for at least the first 2 seasons. The reign of his sons and their struggles can take up the remaining 2 seasons.

Plus Buğra has the pull to keep the attention of the audience. I'm sure Emre bey knows which actors are crucial for his show's success.
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I'm thinking the rest of season 1 will be about the throne war with Turansah and getting Başulu and Sencer recognized.

Season 2 will probably introduce Tutuş and probably have Hasan Sabbah finally relocate to his mountain.
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QueenLola wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:13 pm
I'm hoping we have Melikşah for at least the first 2 seasons. The reign of his sons and their struggles can take up the remaining 2 seasons.

Plus Buğra has the pull to keep the attention of the audience. I'm sure Emre bey knows which actors are crucial for his show's success.
On a lighter, in episode 28, perhaps they had deliberately tried to belittle melikshah in eyes of audience so that people will not heartbroken much when he dies in drama.
Yeah this show will lose too much audience if melikshah dies as bugra gulsoy really made this show lit . So i hope they can prolong him as long as they can at expense of changing history. Also they chose such section in history that hace and melikshah always feel like on edge of death in drama.
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QueenLola wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:13 pm Plus Buğra has the pull to keep the attention of the audience. I'm sure Emre bey knows which actors are crucial for his show's success.
Plus we have been invested in MelSen from the start. the story revolved around them and has to revolve around them for at least 2 seasons. They can't kill him off so soon especially when the relationship has just begin.
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Post by clarkey »

clarkey wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:27 pm
QueenLola wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:13 pm
I'm hoping we have Melikşah for at least the first 2 seasons. The reign of his sons and their struggles can take up the remaining 2 seasons.

Plus Buğra has the pull to keep the attention of the audience. I'm sure Emre bey knows which actors are crucial for his show's success.
On a lighter note, in episode 28, perhaps they had deliberately tried to belittle melikshah in eyes of audience so that people will not heartbroken much when he dies in drama.
Yeah this show will lose too much audience if melikshah dies as bugra gulsoy really made this show lit . So i hope they can prolong him as long as they can at expense of changing history. Also they chose such section in history that hace and melikshah always feel like on edge of death in drama.
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This scene was also touching. Melikşah broke up with another good friend of his hrtbreaking
You know how I always tease Khayyam but I was actually relieved he wasn't at the reveal scene.... my man would have fainted for real tlol

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QueenLola wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:32 am P.S. The actor is really amazing. I love his presence. The only thing I've watched of his is Dağ 2. And I'll have to rewatch to remember what role he played there.
I watched Dağ 1 back when I was on a Çağlar mission but didn't get around to Dağ 2. So this is my first time seeing the Tekiş actor. He's a hidden gem.
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QueenLola wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:01 pm This scene was also touching. Melikşah broke up with another good friend of his hrtbreaking
You know how I always tease Khayyam but I was actually relieved he wasn't at the reveal scene.... my man would have fainted for real tlol

I am so proud of Khayyam for standing his ground and maintaining he did what he did for Melikşah and the state. Melikşah was harsh to him in that scene that I myself got wounded on his behalf. And he still had the power to not faint and to confront Melikşah. Aferin sana Khayyam.
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QueenLola wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:42 pm
clarkey wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:29 pm
Spoiler:
Do you know that hassan sabbah made peace with ahmed sencer in history? So hassan sabbah will not die.
He did? I haven't come across anything like that.
They probably won't follow that path on the show. The enmity is too personal default_moque.gif
I got it the other way around. It was Sencer who made peace with the batinis. But then everyone back then made peace with them because they were a bunch of efficient lunatic assassins. And they killed a long list of notable and important historical figures starting by Nizamulmulk and including among many others, Sencer's vizier Muinu al mulk, two caliphs, an impressive number of emirs and walis, and a very long list of kadis (judges).

The story goes that Sencer woke up in his tent to find a khanjar beside him. Apparently that was the way batinis used to leave messages to their enemies. Meaning we have access to you, and we could kill you if we wanted. And so Sencer made peace with them.
I say that this was "apparently their modus operandi" because I have read this story in similar forms with other political figures, notably Saladdin.
Someone corrects me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that batinis mainly expanded west to the Levant (Tutuş land) while by the time the sultanate went to Sencer, the center of his selçuk sultanate has shifted east (the rüm/Anadolu part was under Kılıç Arslan, the Levant under Tutuş two sons, the Iraqi part at least in name under Tapar's son). Sencer's capital was Merv not Isfahan and as far as I remember he pushed the boundary of his sultanate east by warring with other turkic states. So I am under the impression that by the time Sencer becomes Sultan, he does not exactly pivot in the same geographical orbit as the batinis. But I may be mistaken.
clarkey wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:29 pm Hace may survive because ayaz alp of ahmed sencer also survived like that in bolum 18/19 . Hace and melikshah might reconcile after hace was hit with knife.
A while ago, Twitter was going crazy with theories that now that Melikşah and Hace are on bad terms (like in the historical timeline), it's maybe the time to kill them. It didn't help that hace died in Ramadan and that we were close to Ramadan in real life. People started panicking and concoting wild theories.
Personally, I don't think they will kill any of them this season. For one it's too early. And like the others noted, Buğra is pulling much of the show.
Also the way Nizamulmulk dies is too specific to be simply replaced by this encounter with Turan şah in the middle of the forest. Not to mention it should be preceded by Mah Malik marrying the caliph and Terken having her son to be able to take over the throne when Melikşah dies in Baghdad a month later.
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UglyDuckling wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:49 pm Where did Caka bey disappear? Did they forget about him? Or did they rewrite the story?
Were the news about Çaka bey shared by official sources? I don't remember anymore and don't see how he would fit in this chaos we're in right now. The man deserves his own mini series, for he seriously wanted to become the emperor of Constantinople. Notice I said the emperor not the sultan. He was captured by the byzantines, learned to speak their tongue fluently in the matter of months, became a persona grata in the byzantine palace, and then went to Izmir where he built an armada of 100 ships, took many islands and the whole coast of the Aegean sea and declared himself the "ceasar" of Izmir. He even married his daughter to Kılıç Arslan with his eyes firmly placed on Constantinople. Except Kılıç Arslan wanted nothing to do with Constantiopke and its emperor.
So this Çaka bey was a real piece of work. Maybe he'll be there for next season?
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UglyDuckling wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:14 am So that Hemedani could know who he is and help in the future. But after he left the show they had to cut out that storyline I guess.
Hmmm... Yazık.. I was looking forward to uncovering this secret mark thing.
I wonder if the actor would come back now that there is a vaccination. I finally checked where Turkey is in terms of vaccination and they had fully vaccinated 10% of the population which is impressive by European standards.
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Post by Işık »

QueenLola wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:04 pm
UglyDuckling wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:41 pm
Off course sayiduna will survive blase

This is the same person who took Batini Airlines off a cliff with barely any scratches :giggleey:

Ellerine sağlık Ahmet Sencer. First time I see you fire an arrow and the target was well met tmixpoints
Why haven't we seen Sencer firing an arrow before now?Now that's the way you do it. The boy puts his soul into it. And he totally spoiled archery for me. I can't take anyone else shooting arrows anymore.
I guess they were trying to be nice to us to avoid having us overdose on Ahmet Sencer. And that's why we have not seen him with a bow and arrow before :P
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QueenLola wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:45 am I also wondered what she meant about not dying in her bed. Will she die fighting? Any word on this??
I remember discussing this before but I am too lazy to search :P
Spoiler:
One of Nizamulmulk's sons, his name is Muyadduddin if I am not mistaken, who was at the time Tapar's vizier, captures and kills her. Apparently he was Berkyaruk's vizier before that. Also if I am not mistaken, Berkyaruk kills this vizier. I don't remember the details anymore.
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Işık wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:44 pm So this Çaka bey was a real piece of work. Maybe he'll be there for next season?
I think they pushed him to season 2 too. Birsen had posted about the actor who would play caka bey.
Işık wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:53 pm I wonder if the actor would come back now that there is a vaccination. I finally checked where Turkey is in terms of vaccination and they had fully vaccinated 10% of the population which is impressive by European standards.
The actor left because of his personal health issues not because of Covid.
Last edited by UglyDuckling on Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Işık wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:00 pm Why haven't we seen Sencer firing an arrow before now?Now that's the way you do it. The boy puts his soul into it. And he totally spoiled archery for me. I can't take anyone else shooting arrows anymore.
Because he had his personal archer Balaban ssmug I found it funny every time they had problems Sencer would scream Balaban and poor Balaban would leave whatever he was doing and shoot an arrow default_moque.gif
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Işık wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:24 pm
I got it the other way around. It was Sencer who made peace with the batinis. But then everyone back then made peace with them because they were a bunch of efficient lunatic assassins. And they killed a long list of notable and important historical figures starting by Nizamulmulk and including among many others, Sencer's vizier Muinu al mulk, two caliphs, an impressive number of emirs and walis, and a very long list of kadis (judges).

The story goes that Sencer woke up in his tent to find a khanjar beside him. Apparently that was the way batinis used to leave messages to their enemies. Meaning we have access to you, and we could kill you if we wanted. And so Sencer made peace with them.
I say that this was "apparently their modus operandi" because I have read this story in similar forms with other political figures, notably Saladdin.
Oh yeah this.... I don't consider it peace though default_moque.gif
The way I read it was more of a stalemate.
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Işık wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:00 pm
Why haven't we seen Sencer firing an arrow before now?Now that's the way you do it. The boy puts his soul into it. And he totally spoiled archery for me. I can't take anyone else shooting arrows anymore.
I guess they were trying to be nice to us to avoid having us overdose on Ahmet Sencer. And that's why we have not seen him with a bow and arrow before :P
UglyDuckling wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:01 am Because he had his personal archer Balaban ssmug I found it funny every time they had problems Sencer would scream Balaban and poor Balaban would leave whatever he was doing and shoot an arrow default_moque.gif
For real, Balaban is always summoned mid-fight to stop another attack default_moque.gif
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Post by Işık »

UglyDuckling wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:59 am
Işık wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:44 pm So this Çaka bey was a real piece of work. Maybe he'll be there for next season?
I think they pushed him to season 2 too. Birsen had posted about the actor who would play caka bey.
Birsen hanım's news are usually trustworthy so at least we know there will be a Çaka bey and we know who will play him.
UglyDuckling wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:59 am
Işık wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:53 pm I wonder if the actor would come back now that there is a vaccination. I finally checked where Turkey is in terms of vaccination and they had fully vaccinated 10% of the population which is impressive by European standards.
The actor left because of his personal health issues not because of Covid.
Oh I see.
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Post by Işık »

UglyDuckling wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:01 am Because he had his personal archer Balaban ssmug I found it funny every time they had problems Sencer would scream Balaban and poor Balaban would leave whatever he was doing and shoot an arrow default_moque.gif
That's so funny default_moque.gif
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Post by UglyDuckling »

We all think Meliksah is an intelligent Sultan but he is not smart enough to see through Taculmulk and Terken. I think the writers understood that the real Sultan had taculmulk and Terken by his side till his end and so had to show him making mistakes such as inviting T back into the fold.
Sometimes knowing history has its problems. We know Sabbah won't die so soon. But I have a feeling that unlike history they may somehow kill Sabbah by the end of the show. It will be satisfying for the viewers to see his end especially after all the major assassinations by the Batinis.

I am really trying to understand how Meliksah was genuinely confused and didn't suspect after all those clues in front of him. Why did they show him asking questions to Hace about Sencer's father? :ko2_knocked:
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